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Post by telerat on Nov 15, 2023 22:36:51 GMT
I mentioned both usage and boots and you state I make it about boots.. I will try to rewrite it so you understand; I would not recommend either the Xplore binding (with the current boots), nor 75mm with cable (with any boot) for the usage you stated (blue and black and some black+ runs inbounds and out). T4 and 75mm w/cable would be fine for blues, as well as Xplore with Alfa Free (according to some that have tried it), but not very suited to the rest. Anything is possible, depending on skill and preferences though.
I would not use T4 without cables for anything except moderate terrain, but it is possible. Is there anything else I should write so you can misunderstand it?
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 15, 2023 22:43:14 GMT
You REWROTE what Rottefella wrote to me stating that they were saying it was about boots when they said NO SUCH THING. They stated that 75mm was a better choice than Xplore for the SLOPES of 20-40 degrees I ski. You can try and change that but it's too late and now you are squirming around trying to change everything you said. You can try and make up whatever shit you want to. I know what the Rotte tech said. I have the email and it's posted here. 0 mention of boot excuses.
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Post by telerat on Nov 16, 2023 11:09:41 GMT
Rottefella answered your question if 75mm with cable and T4/T2 or Xplore with "the stiffest-soled boot available" would be best suited to your usage that included "blue and black and some black+ runs inbounds and out" as well as "slopes from 20 - 40+ degrees" that I left out as being superfluous. From your question I, as Rottefella from my understanding, took it as your focus was on the downs/slopes and no current Xplore boot in the Xplore binding can compete with T4/T2 in a cable binding there.
If any future boot comes closer to a T4 with a cable binding remains to be seen. The Xplore binding has steel internals that both the pin holes and four mounting holes are part of, molded inside plastic so it seems quite strong. Rottefella has (so far) chosen to omit a heel groove, but I believe the binding could handle it fine. The forces from a cable would actually work in the opposite direction of the stiff flexor in the current implementation and reduce the stress on the pins/binding holes. The mounting holes are quite close though, so the rear ones would probably need to be moved further back if the resistance to heel lift increased significantly. I do not think Rottefella intends to compete with NTN bindings (and hopefully lower and lighter boots) and they have patented Xplore, so I don't expect to see a cable option anytime soon.
I understand your anxiety for 75mm and to me it is dead (as well as NNN-BC which I never tried). I never thought I'd stop using 75mm, but now I think regular NNN, Xplore and NTN will eventually cover all my ski use cases, but as long there is a market 75mm will exist. I will be getting rid of most of my spare 75mm bindings now, but will keep the old Terminator, Asolo Extreme, Switchback on one pair of skis and Chili on another pair as the sale value is very low. My wife also skis 75mm with both Excursion and CXP boots, and I have bought used 75mm for my son so he can telemark and go backcountry skiing, instead of going alpine. There is an abundance of used 75mm telemark equipment here in Norway, as many has switched to AT equipment. Almost all that start out now buys AT, so if we want telemark to still exist we need newer and better gear to tempt new users to us.
I also have mountain bikes, and the changes to axles/wheels and gearing in the later years is a nightmare, but it finally seems that it settles down somewhat. It is painful when my old equipment isn't compatible with the new stuff, but if I feel there is enough progress I am okay with it. Upgrading will be slower and more costly though. As long as my old equipment works well enough, I see no reason to upgrade before I have to. Each have to decide when that is.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 16, 2023 13:31:06 GMT
Look, their answer is not specific to any 75mm boots because they only mention 75mm generically irrespective of my telling them I would be using t4's or 2's. There are many more boot options in 75mm than t4xs or 2's. You keep layering your interpretation over their response. In any case, it's fair enough to say the comparison has to be system-to-system which means the best or worst vs the best or worst and 75 mm comes up the winner. And also take note that I asked them to contrast xplore possibilities to their own NEW HARDWIRE.So, according to your reasoning, their answer is specifically in regard to the best Xplore option VS the best Rottefella hardwire option. You cannot be consistent and claim it was even about Voile Hardwire3pin and T2's if you choose to reason the way you are. And, BTW, guess what? There will never be a "cable option" for Xplore.
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Post by telerat on Nov 16, 2023 15:31:06 GMT
I think you are interpreting their answer just as much, if not more, than me. Their answer was pretty short and an answer to your rather long question which explicitly lists T4 and also T2 as 75mm boots, so claiming that they answer pertains to 75mm generally (including leather boots?) is your interpretation.
It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 16, 2023 16:04:28 GMT
All I can say is it should have been understood that I would be using at least LITE plastic boots, the best comparison (closest to reality) they could make would be to compare Xplore and it's best boot to their hardwire binding and a T4 or maybe some excursions though there are some double leathers and such that could be used as well. Their advice, effectively is T4 and Their hardwire wins for slopes 20-40 degrees and conditions that vary. Strictly speaking you can't compare the T2 to the Xplore setup because there is no Xplore boot that even remotely approaches the T2. Notice I did not ask for a contrast of Xplore to Voile's Hardwire3pin because the 2 bindings are not even remotely in the same class. Unless and until the Xplore includes a spring-activated option, it's really not even realistic to compare it to the Voile Traverse binding and a T4. In fact you can credibly argue that comparing any fully neutral binding to any binding that is or can be spring-activated is silly to start with. Simple pins, NNN/BC, Xplores, they all essentially operate in terms of heel lift resistance or tip pressure the same way- bumpers, duckbills and flexors. But it could be the case, however and as someone mentioned, that Xplore is more a laterally stiff binding than plain pins because of how tightly the toe is held by the pin setup; I don't know and don't plan on wasting 1200 bux to see when I can ski all the xcd I want with a moderately active (Voile's description) binding (3pc).
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 18, 2023 17:41:43 GMT
The whole point in my writing to Rottefella to elicit their judgement was because of all the chatter about how the Xplore binding was somehow "active". The truth is my query was flawed to start with because bindings that are active-- according to the accepted definition of "activity"--- must have some sort of a spring-ACTIVATING system that provides mechanical advantage when engaged and neither NNN, Xplore nor plain pins have such systems. But people tend to believe what they want contrary to logic, mathematics or high school physics. I would not be surprised if Xplore does hold the boots with less lateral play than plain pins and maybe NNN as well, but that' is not a measure of activity and neither is standing on your toes pushing on a flexor. Of course when a spring or hardwire is added to pins, lateral play is basically eliminated in the toe box and in the case of the HW3pin, you have aggressive activity and moderate activity in Voile's 3PC. How much activity does the Rotte hardwire binding provide compared to Voiles HW3pin or 3PC? Couldn't tell you for sure but it looks like less than the HW3pin especially considering that the black hardwires from the SBX2 can easily be added to the HW3pin- or the older pinless hardwires.
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