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Post by mark on Jan 17, 2022 0:33:51 GMT
WTF will it be ? I think it's still primarily softer cabled bindings, softer plastics ( T4 ish) and maybe some stouter leathers . I cannot envision anything more relevant/applicable. Nothing beats that for a broad range now, WHY will it change? MIKE???
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Post by cunningstunts on Jan 17, 2022 1:27:16 GMT
I think it will mostly be UL AT, and probably 2 pin XC - maybe scaled down TTS.
I think it will likely still be leathers - be nice if there was a more intermediate boot like the very light, very capable AT stuff i.e. carbon fiber frame and rubber sole and bellows.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 17, 2022 14:22:38 GMT
Seems the future is here already. Leather doubles are heavier and far less powerful than T4's, even if they slog along more comfortably. This Rott knockoff of Voile's HW3pin and the 3PC added nothing-- a bit more active than the 3PC and less powerful than the HW3Pin. And look at that Xplore mess, 100's more for a setup that has 0 activity? Nice proprietary move but where's the market for a $$$ slightly more downhill-capable XCd system? If that Xplore system actually had some level of activity, there might be something to crow about.
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Post by RnDinosaur on Jan 24, 2022 20:47:27 GMT
Unless Dynafit develops something, XCD will look the same way it does today, which it seems is basically how it looked 20 years ago. NNNBC for low angle, plastic 75mm for the rest. Id love to see a carbon T4 or some progress in NTN/TTS boots but I'm not holding my breath. Xplore is DOA. Is it even available? Does anyone even want it? Its a shame really.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 24, 2022 23:18:49 GMT
This Xplore binding make NO SENSE. It's just a dressed up XC NEUTRAL binding, the same as NNN/BC. TOMM has a video on it.. First he says it feels a lot like a 75mm (plain pins) binding, then he surmises that the new soon-to-be-released flexor will somehow turn it into a binding capable of competing with 75mm cable bindings..and that folks is a segue into nonsense i.e. a fuckin flexor has nothing to do with either activity or heel lift resistance. Now ignoring the fact that the poor guy cannot ski but on a beginner level, he could still do the simple tests I mentioned to him which contrast just a 3PinCable with the amazing Xplore, but true to the tendency of chronically weak Telemark skiers to resist reality, he refuses, going silent after whining about my comments and suggestions. I am not saying that the Xplore can not be downhill skied well in a limited range of conditions by those willing to flail for the 100's of hours of fucking around needed to achieve the mastery.. WHAT I AM SAYING is that it is yet another neutral binding that without a cable will never be active or significantly stiff (being that stiffness is a function of cable and activity a function of cable pivot point). Look at the fore/aft floppiness of this boot.. Right a fucking flexor does what to make this systems stiffer and actually ACTIVE?
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 24, 2022 23:48:04 GMT
The future of XCD is so simple it may never come: lengthen the toebox on the 3PC, move the cable pivot back and design the pivot point to accept either a springy cable or a hardwire. You then have the choice of eithe a Hardwire3pin or a 3PC in the same MORE ACTIVE binding's toe box. And being that the HW3Pin can really be used almost anywhere off or on piste a good skier wants to wander, what you would have here are the broadest range of good Tele options imaginable. And, of course, the longer toe box will give better edge control as well.
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Post by RnD on Jan 25, 2022 2:05:26 GMT
Yeah, not much of a consensus on DH power turnabilty with the xplore boots/binding. Johnny raves about it but, at one point says its almost as powerful as NNNBC. Almost? WTF is the point? Tom is not very sure about the power either. Shouldn't be hard to ascertain, I suspect they just dont want to admit its not an improvement for legit DH. Probably a stouter boot would be great, I think the system may have potential, but like NNNBC, soft boots will handicap it.
I'm going the other direction anyway. Im gonna give NTN/Meidjo a try next season. XC is XC, T4/Excursion handles everything else up to and including lift serve, but I want more power for bumps and ice and a release. I'm still relatively new, lots to learn and I want to feel the power!
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Post by cunningstunts on Jan 25, 2022 3:58:54 GMT
I don't even see the point in messing with T4s. I haven't wore my T2s in a while and I grabbed them out of the basement the other day - I forgot how light they are. They ain't much different in weight than a T4 and so much better to ski in. Walking or striding in either sucks, but WTF you gonna do? Walking in plastic will never be fun. If someone can make that boot both lighter and better to stride in, I'd buy another. Call it whatever you will, but that would make it a bit more XC no matter how powerful.
The switchback fixed everything wrong with XCD years ago - it's just so damn heavy.
XCD = AT now. Besides the KOM and a couple Asnes, there's few dedicated choices. Objective is an AT ski - I mean it's a ski, but there's the fact that Voile still won't warranty them with a Tele mount. The new old "XCD" skis are just new top sheets on the same old skis, which I'm sure will migrate more to AT designs as time goes on.
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Post by TM on Jan 25, 2022 10:28:41 GMT
Uh....figure less is better...three pins that last forever is not a good capitalist thing....but they work.....leathers for those who don't want to ruin the planet as in plastic.....skinny skis for cruising....Unless capitalist pigs can stop production of the above.....why not give luddites their due? ? Since you guys NEED the big and burly to do the deed you will happily suck up the new and useless...Enjoy! TM
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Post by RnD on Jan 25, 2022 11:17:39 GMT
I don't even see the point in messing with T4s. I haven't wore my T2s in a while and I grabbed them out of the basement the other day - I forgot how light they are. They ain't much different in weight than a T4 and so much better to ski in. Walking or striding in either sucks, but WTF you gonna do? Walking in plastic will never be fun. If someone can make that boot both lighter and better to stride in, I'd buy another. Call it whatever you will, but that would make it a bit more XC no matter how powerful. The switchback fixed everything wrong with XCD years ago - it's just so damn heavy. XCD = AT now. Besides the KOM and a couple Asnes, there's few dedicated choices. Objective is an AT ski - I mean it's a ski, but there's the fact that Voile still won't warranty them with a Tele mount. The new old "XCD" skis are just new top sheets on the same old skis, which I'm sure will migrate more to AT designs as time goes on. I've considered a bigger 75mm boot, T2s or whatever. I got T4s and excursions because at the time I was moving from XC and focused mostly on backwoods/Intermediate BC. A lighter free pivot binding or boot would solve our problems nicely. XCD, maybe freeheel in general is seriously stalled.
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Post by RnD on Jan 25, 2022 11:28:48 GMT
Uh....figure less is better...three pins that last forever is not a good capitalist thing....but they work.....leathers for those who don't want to ruin the planet as in plastic.....skinny skis for cruising....Unless capitalist pigs can stop production of the above.....why not give luddites their due? ? Since you guys NEED the big and burly to do the deed you will happily suck up the new and useless...Enjoy! TM Production of leather boots uses resources too, what are those soles made out of? Where does leather come from? How does feed get to the farm? Give it a rest. You guys use XC skis and leathers for low angle BC, we get it. Its great, but hows that work on East Coast boiler plate laden bumped out steeps? My woods are just like yours, and I've skied it NNNBC, soft 75, even with the fabled E99, and outside of perfect conditions it basically sucks. One size doesn't fit all. P.S. I use simple 3 pins too.
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Post by Grampa Groomer on Jan 25, 2022 14:10:50 GMT
Uh....figure less is better...three pins that last forever is not a good capitalist thing....but they work.....leathers for those who don't want to ruin the planet as in plastic.....skinny skis for cruising....Unless capitalist pigs can stop production of the above.....why not give luddites their due? ? Since you guys NEED the big and burly to do the deed you will happily suck up the new and useless...Enjoy! TM I would as how fucking stupid you can be but that's more than evident from anything you post. Do you have any idea how much plastic is in your skis and boots? Some leather does not mean all.<GAWD what a brainless dork!> You have no idea how the weight of a T2 even compares to those squishy old waterlogged boots of yours and it supports nothing you say. Skimo/Rando gear left your junk e99 in terms of weight advantage years ago. But then again you barely get 30k vertical per/YR flailing around your bunnyhills, which is less than 2 average days of skiing for most of us, so your opinions are mainly based on trolling and NOT-skiing. One day you brag about your buddies ripping it on their fattest gear, the next you ramble on about how you all only ski the holy E99. You are clearly full of yourself and shit as well. And BTW, you can stop with your XcDc lies, most of the skis we saw in your pics and videos were BLENDED i.e old downhill designs with a bit of added camber.
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Post by cunningstunts on Jan 25, 2022 14:39:21 GMT
Right - there's impacts to everything. Aren't T2 Ecos fully recycled? Whatever they are, they are a well designed boot. They could be lighter... true, but they're already pretty costly, so I don't know about $1k boots. They have the "power" of at least a moderate Alpine boot. That makes a big difference in how/what you can ski with them. Probably not worth it if you're riding lifts - just go to NTN. And maybe just go NTN anyway because the bindings have way more advantages with less weight, at least in the Meidjo side of things.
T2 is nice for me because it can ski moderate BC and lift-served terrain confidently. That's the extent of what I do, and it's all I really need.
I still ski leathers and NNN-BC and all that, but based on having not-great days out on my long skis with NNN-BC vs great days on my Objectives, I'll tell which one I'm going to grab for what. And for me it's just about having fun. If it isn't fun, I won't do it. I've had fun days on skinnier skis with NNN-BC or just pins. But I know what conditions those are. I also know on a real nice snow day, I *could* ski those lighter skis, and do better, but honestly, they just aren't as fun, so I don't. XC skiing on AT skis isn't fun either. YMMV.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 25, 2022 16:17:41 GMT
I don't even see the point in messing with T4s. I haven't wore my T2s in a while and I grabbed them out of the basement the other day - I forgot how light they are. They ain't much different in weight than a T4 and so much better to ski in. Walking or striding in either sucks, but WTF you gonna do? Walking in plastic will never be fun. If someone can make that boot both lighter and better to stride in, I'd buy another. Call it whatever you will, but that would make it a bit more XC no matter how powerful. The switchback fixed everything wrong with XCD years ago - it's just so damn heavy. XCD = AT now. Besides the KOM and a couple Asnes, there's few dedicated choices. Objective is an AT ski - I mean it's a ski, but there's the fact that Voile still won't warranty them with a Tele mount. The new old "XCD" skis are just new top sheets on the same old skis, which I'm sure will migrate more to AT designs as time goes on. T4's are a bit lighter than T2's and some people find the lower cuff a bit more comfortable to walk and ski in. Arguably they are a better fit for lighter cabled bindings like the 3PC-- which is lighter than the HW3PIN, so the weight factor begins to add up. Also a T4 is at home with a decent ski 80+ underfoot, again total weight could be a consideration. Koms, 3PC and T4's are arguably at about the upper end of "XCD", though the term itself is pretty poorly defined. The funny thing about the SWITCHBACK (X2 especially) is that it is also a very resort-capable binding ( easy in and out, longer toebox for increased edge hold, stiff cylinder option) overall, inbounds or out, it's my favorite binding though I ski the Hardwire3pin inbounds and out a lot also. Voile could easily make a 3PC toe piece that is longer and has the pivot point back an inch -- maybe one that accepts both springy cables and Hardwires. I can't really see how there would be a better simpler XCD binding.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 25, 2022 16:31:09 GMT
Yeah, not much of a consensus on DH power turnabilty with the xplore boots/binding. Johnny raves about it but, at one point says its almost as powerful as NNNBC. Almost? WTF is the point? Tom is not very sure about the power either. Shouldn't be hard to ascertain, I suspect they just dont want to admit its not an improvement for legit DH. Probably a stouter boot would be great, I think the system may have potential, but like NNNBC, soft boots will handicap it. I'm going the other direction anyway. Im gonna give NTN/Meidjo a try next season. XC is XC, T4/Excursion handles everything else up to and including lift serve, but I want more power for bumps and ice and a release. I'm still relatively new, lots to learn and I want to feel the power! A stouter boot for the Xplore just means it has given up some striding comfort/efficiency..one less thing to brag about. To know the true character of that boot Tom is on, all you have to do is look at it in the video cover pic; it's another noodle. NTN etc, always some broken or malfunctioning something. Truth is there are too many Telemark binding choices and half of them work half the time. None of them work so wonderfully well that they dominate fully. There's one consensus however: 99% prefer active bindings. Plain pins, NNN/BC and now Xplore, all novelties for lower angles and easy snow conditions.
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