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Post by cunningstunts on May 28, 2021 18:02:00 GMT
But oh-joy-of-joys, it means if you "want" it you have to not only buy this contraption, but buy new boots too! Marketing genius!
I'll take some interest in another 15-20 years when all my current XCD crap is worn out and I need to start over.
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Post by mark on May 28, 2021 22:43:00 GMT
The silliness of Telemark. But 0 activity bindings remain that, and then there are the cabled types, and then the hardwired types and now Duck Butts and the 2-pin hybrids. And we wonder why dedicated alpiners laugh? Telemark is not going to get a bit better than it is and still remain Telemark. One has to wonder why there is this constant hunt for a perfect binding? In any case, the Xplore cannot even credibly be called a Telemark binding; it's primarily an XC-meets-2-pin modification.
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Post by albertatele on Dec 21, 2021 15:28:27 GMT
As one would expect, it works in a very tight stance and in a few inches of fluff. How is it any better than NNN/BC? Not apparent, maybe marginally stiffer?
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Post by jlm42 on Dec 29, 2021 17:43:40 GMT
Hello you are denigrating rottefella explore, but anybody have try it ??
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Post by Telebabble on Dec 29, 2021 18:23:55 GMT
Why would we need to try it for downhill purposes? It appears, at best, to be marginally more active than any other cross country binding. Maybe it's a tad more stable for turns than NNN, so why would anyone who wants at least some significant level of activity pay 100's of dollars for it when they could just buy a even a simple tried-and-true 75mm cabled binding and use it with a wide variety of 75mm boots and have something far better for downhill control? People who used this new system brag about it's comfort for kick-and-glide. Enough said, this is just another but very expensive XC setup. Soft boots, inactive binding = $$$$$ meadow skipper setup.
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Post by cunningstunts on Dec 29, 2021 18:46:03 GMT
If it is overpriced meadowskipping, people won't buy it. I mean all XCD is meadowskipping, but cost of bindings + boots is going to have to comparable, at some point, to other systems, or it's going to have to be a lot better. Seen as how Rottefella controls most of that market, they'll be able to do whatever-the-fuck-they-want. It's easy to compete with 3 pin, just eradicate the boots, as we see is being done.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Dec 29, 2021 23:31:34 GMT
Nah, not ez to compete with 3pins at all on the xcD.T4 and just a 3PinCable will blow this Xplore thing away for input vs output. T4 and Hardwire3PIN? NOTHING compares to it for XCD on the down, nothing. Sure, good snow, lower angles and if you put in the time and like skiing 0-activity bindings and soft boots, then maybe eventually you will ski with Telehiro, but who the fuck wants to invest that time --and $$$ in the case of this Xplore thing? And if you pair a T2 with a HW3pin, you have about all the power you need for hunting turns or skiing inbounds as well. THIS Xplore is a wheel ( and a damned $$$ one) with no need of reinvention.
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Post by albertatele on Dec 29, 2021 23:43:25 GMT
BTW, Scarpa is still making more 75mm models than NTN.
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Post by Call me Tom! on Jan 14, 2022 22:40:15 GMT
TomM has a new video on how to mount a shitty little binding! Like no one ever mounted some NNN binding or such. And he's going to ski his new Xplore setup. Well, at least he calls it skiing, though he can't ski. How do you teach others to ski when you really are at about stage 1 of 10?
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Post by Grampa Groomer on Jan 14, 2022 23:48:49 GMT
I dunno, ask the real Grampa Groomer?
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 15, 2022 13:36:07 GMT
TomM has a new video on how to mount a shitty little binding! Like no one ever mounted some NNN binding or such. And he's going to ski his new Xplore setup. Well, at least he calls it skiing, though he can't ski. How do you teach others to ski when you really are at about stage 1 of 10? I guess, considering the number of noobs over there and the predominance of interest at Ttalk in XCd, Tom's binding-mount video is probably really valuable at that forum. He seems to be a very good XC skier but a very very weak Telemark skier with that constant uphill/inside poling for balance and a wobbly rear ski and underflexed front leg. He just does not have the very basics of Telemark down. No flow at all, just a stiff, long spread and park-and-ride with no dynamics. His version of Tele is exactly what you see in most XC skiers with very low alpine skills.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 26, 2022 20:55:41 GMT
Look at the image.. 5 degree slope, Tippy-toe Tele on the "hard flexor". Rott is also trying to sell the idea that a stiffer flexor equates to activity. Shell out a couple thousand and find out or just look at the basic mechanics of Telemark bindings. Simply put , it's a damned lie. The "hard" flexor woud have to arc back and down toward the toe to differ in any away regarding activity vs the softer flexor. It doesn't. It can't. Essentially the harder flexor cannot interfere but marginaly with how the boot pins attach..
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Post by cunningstunts on Jan 26, 2022 21:32:27 GMT
Stiffer flexors help on NNN-BC. But, they don't feel at all like a cable. All they do is transfer some pressure to the tip, but make a little tougher to lift the BOF off the ski. The cable is different, it literally forces your BOF against the ski, or tries to - plastic boots are stiff enough just to break the bellows. It also adds tip pressure. It also adds a restorative force which gives the illusion of stiffness - that is when cable is taught, if you try to pull it out of plane, it resists with its stiffness in opposition to that and tries balance itself. It doesn't make the boot or the binding stiffer, but transfers loads from the boot to the ski. A flexor cannot do that.
I ski with the red ones on NNN-BC. They aren't bad. Slightly more active, for the way they work but also not so stiff I notice any huge detriment in touring. You can still easily go tip-toed though. It definitely feels a lot easier to tour with than either plastic boots with no cable or with the same boots with the cable on. But in the opposite sense, it neither provides the "power" of a plastic boot without the cable or the same leather boot with the cable. By same, I mean nominally the same boot upper as that's all I have to compare - I have Crispi Svartisens both NNN-BC and NN, but the soles of each are so different that does somewhat favor the NN boot and the cable - you get both a better flexing sole with the NN and by itself, it's not as stiff or powerful as the NNN boot, but the cable easily surpasses that.
So get this kind of weird niche-ness in this crossover area.
NNN-BC black flexor - tours great, maybe on par with soft sole NN counterpart boot for dh
Plain NN 3P - tours great with soft NN soles, comparable with NNN-BC for dh
NNN-BC red flexor - takes a bit of a hit for touring compared to black flexor or plain pins but improves over both for dh
NN 3PC - tours better and skis dh better than any if the cable is removed for touring. The only detriment is fussing with the cable.
So I've kind of concluded, for doing yo-yos or perhaps a big climb, big descent, the 3PC is way better. Just fuss with the cable, it's worth it.
For long, rolling tours where you want some dh confidence but you're not purposely seeking turns, the NNN-BC with the red flexor is better. For skiing on groomed XC tracks the NNN-BC black flexor is best (unless you want to skate, then the red is far better but not quite as stiff as I want for skating).
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 26, 2022 23:02:35 GMT
Thinger is exactly what you want to ski the neutral bindings well is to really limit heel rising more than a very few inches. There's no option of leveraging the tips through a cable pivot point. But the stiffer flexor even though it can push against the toe harder does nothing to stop the heel from coming up mainly because boots appropriate for neutral bindings have such relatively easy flex.. Seems the force resisting the front of the boots going forward and down also makes it easier for the heel to break and lift. Still all depends on centering because you can easily raise a boot heel to around 90 degrees even if you barely pressure a flexor. Bottomline: NNN, XPLORE OR PLAIN PINS, to ski it well, you will ski it with heels held low and you will fight any neutral binding DH as conditions get worse than quite good.
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Post by cunningstunts on Jan 26, 2022 23:21:49 GMT
I tend to keep my heel lower with no cable. It just works better.
For me the whole thing the cable does is make it so I don't have to focus so hard on how I weight the rear ski, and even with best performance on neutral bindings, I don't feel as connected to the ski as I do with the cable.
It's also easier to ski more aggressive with a cable (or any heel attachment) and not lose the rear ski (more forward on the lead ski). Conversely, it's hard to find center on neutral bindings and tele sometimes seems to force you in the back seat a bit to get good BOF pressure. It's not completely backseat as you'll go on your ass with leathers if you get there, but you do feel the front ski walking away from you and it's easy to let it extend and get yourself in a much worse situation.
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