|
Post by Telebabble on Mar 24, 2021 19:39:41 GMT
"I think the Alfa Skaget Xplore boot looks very much the boot I want, and hope it has good support and comfort. If Xplore is equal to 75mm with cable on descents"
Goddamn people are STUPID! How in the hell could it be equal to even the 3pin Cable when there is NO cable? THERE IS NO HEEL LIFT REESISTANCE, NO SKI TIP LEVERAGE FROM THE BINDING, NO STIFFNESS IN ANY REAL SENSE AND NO A C T I V I TY!!!! This ranks as one of the most clueless posts of the year! He freed the heel and freed the mind of any rational thought! That boot, as any idiot can see from the video, twists like a noodle so good luck with the "support". If you are talking support ,dummy, it's NOT the boot you want!
|
|
|
Post by practicalturnguy on Mar 27, 2021 20:20:01 GMT
Yeah I just don't get it. I want to like it, I want to be encouraged that rotte is investing r+d into a viable new freeheel system, but the flagship boot they launch with doesnt seem to hit the mark. Its more of a lateral move than a forward one. If the most powerful boots for this system are the same as nnnbc, its basically pointless. Its not really even lighter.
|
|
|
Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Mar 28, 2021 13:03:45 GMT
Always the same story with BC/lite i.e. compromise in what travels well and in comfort vs what really controls well coming down. What I object to in this case is all the palaver about how great this setup will be for Tele off piste when; 1) the boot obviously has a sole soft enough to be twisted by hand and; 2) this is a 0 activity binding. Soft boot and 0 activity = nothing better than what's out there right now for a lot less $$$, namely NNN and plain pins.
|
|
|
Post by Telebabble on Apr 24, 2021 23:39:37 GMT
Who cares about it? It is a NEUTRAL binding that will NOT sell in the tiny world of Telemark. If it did, people would by hoarding NNN/BC and simple pins. Johnny over at whatever it is, Ttalk I guess, skis NTN and talks up shitty boots and bindings and claims this one is just so amazing, and sure it is, until you need a really active binding and some decent boots. When Johnny gets his awesome ass off the NTN, then maybe someone should bother to listen..or not.
|
|
|
Post by Hey on Apr 25, 2021 10:32:34 GMT
Give Rottafella a pat on the back for trying something new and different....It AIN'T something I'd want but Super Rotta Telemark binding without cables is still the BEST binding on the market.....Ski it if you can....Teleman
|
|
|
Post by Telebabble on Apr 25, 2021 12:36:12 GMT
YES! That old Rott 3pin sans cable was the best!!!! So good in fact, and so in demand, that they released this this year. Geee, looks an awful lot like Voile's Hardwire3Pin--without a decent risers. You took your own advice and still can't ski it (or anything else for that matter)! A new binding, just exactly what Telemark did not need. And the only thing it needed less was that worthless Xplore neutral piece of junk.
|
|
|
Post by dopey on Apr 26, 2021 11:04:14 GMT
SO?.....Good for them....Cables are redundant....Made for the Alpine pretend telemarkers....Enjoy!...TM
|
|
|
Post by mark on Apr 26, 2021 13:03:44 GMT
You seem offended that anyone speak a bit critically of Rottefella because they make your favorite pins. They also make/made a ton of other bindings like the NTN. Your trolling about cables is transparently simple minded. Lest you forget, the father of Telemark used and invented a type of heel strap and also gets credit for the Christy ALPINE turn. No one really cares that you actually can't Tele.
|
|
|
Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Apr 26, 2021 14:35:45 GMT
Xplore.. People ( including Johnny at ttalk of course ) are saying it has amazingly better lateral control than plain pins, or NNN/BC ( of course lateral control and activity and stiffness for Tele are not identical things to say the least ) because of the width from pin to pin in the 2 pin setup.. I think there's a misconception here in that with simple pins, the lever arm is from wing to wing and the lever is really the duckbill levering against or across the wings. So that being the case, there's only a marginal difference between NN and the Xplore systems as far as lateral control goes. Of course there is a certain tolerance between the boots and the wings on NN/pins but enough to give the Xplore amazingly better lateral "activity"? I don't see it. And finally, the Xplore binding, just like a simple NN binding without cable, appears to be a neutral binding. It may be delightful to those who basically XCD ski in the Telehiro style, but short of that, it will make no real mark on Telemark skiing. Why should you shell out big bux for this system if you already XCD ski well everything you want on simple pins, NNN or 3PC? Well, to have a new toy I guess.
|
|
|
Post by cunningstunts on Apr 26, 2021 15:02:05 GMT
The NN is incorrect, 33mm has nothing to do with anything. The characteristic width is 75mm, that's why it's called 75mm.
Also the way the leverage works on NNN-BC, the 42mm (not sure if that dim is correct) applies to twisting perpendicular to the snow surface (and not even if you consider under boot engagement of ridges). Rolling skis on edge is transmitted through the boot sole and the bar. Still less mechanical advantage than 75mm.
The XPLORE would have mechanical advantage in both planes similar to 75mm (if 70mm is the characteristic width).
You could make the argument that the twisting (lateral) leverage is from pin edge to inside of the opposite wing on 75mm, but in reality the pins shouldn't do much except keep the boot from slipping out when flexed all the way forward. Twisting is mostly limited by the longitudinal length of the wings and total boot engagement.
The advantage here is related to boot construction and touring. You can make a much stiffer toe box with NNN-BC or the XPLORE. For exceptional touring, the duckbill must be very soft (on 75mm). This is not the case with NNN-BC or XPLORE (as I can see it).
Will it have disadvantages to the feel and style of Tele? Sure. It's not a Telemark binding, and neither is NNN-BC. It's a rugged XC binding. XPLORE is an AT binding applied to XC.
Telemark bindings are inherently limited or overly general (and thus limited in performance in one way or another). It's just the nature blending XC and DH. Those that have excellent touring properties are generally not as great for DH. The converse can be said about DH bindings.
|
|
|
Post by albertatele on Apr 26, 2021 18:45:10 GMT
It's the same old story of compromise: XC, DH, XCd or xcD? My take is that the Xplore looks about the same in terms of lateral stiffness as 75MM and definetly more laterally powerful than NNN/BC, but better for the overland than 75MM (in terms of KandG or shuffle or whatever you want to call it) but probably not a great improvement over NNN for XC. On the downhill, it has nowhere near the boot options as 75MM and looks like a tossup between it and NNN in that regard. Downhill there's just no way it competes well at all with the likes of an Excursion or a T4 and some sort of light cable binding; it appears to be no more active than either plain pins or NNN. Some sort of removable cable would have been nice. It seems to cover a really narrow niche. Stiff boots for the Xplore will only take away from the XC touring aspect. I doubt it goes far. BTW, it is surprising to me that LJ actually thought the pins on 75MM were the levering mechanism. Pins really don't do a thing but position the boots for the bails to hold down and for cables to tighten up fore/aft. Countless older Tele bindings really amount to pinless toe boxes held firmly in place with various cables or hardwires. Pins matter very little unless you ski plain pins.
|
|
|
Post by cunningstunts on Apr 27, 2021 1:38:15 GMT
I wouldn't equate toe box stiffness with sole stiffness. We all know 75mm stiffness in that area is a function of materials, but also duckbill thickness. Thick duckbills don't bend and pivot as well as thin ones. So we have a clear tradeoff in that area.
NNN-BC boots are not as stiff as thick plastic 75mm even so. But they are or can be stiffer than other comparable 75mm rubber soles. The sole flex on NNN-BC seems to be an issue for some, but even the stiffest I've ever used don't seem to be an issue. They aren't *THAT* stiff. And who knows because anything you read someone is always saying this is too stiff or not stiff enough, blah, blah... it's all pointless without measurement. But common sense and experience tells us what boots are going to excel for DH control and which ones are going to be good for touring. It's up to the end user to decide what is best for their purposes.
|
|
|
Post by shenanagains on Apr 27, 2021 2:03:10 GMT
www.telemarktalk.com/download/file.php?id=6631Watch the .gif and see how stiff those plastic toe wings are. Nope, it isn't just the boots that are lame. Pretty sure this one is a flop, and would wait a season or two for durability reports. I think LJ knows good and well the system is weak sauce but is playing it up to keep Rottefella happy and further his image as a rebel who can eek performance from flimsy junk.
|
|
|
Post by cunningstunts on Apr 27, 2021 3:05:37 GMT
That doesn't look great.
I hadn't even looked at the details of the binding but yeah that plastic frame doesn't look very robust. Say what you will about NNN-BC, but it is hinged together with metal parts... granted they are not mechanically ideal - kind of long and lots of bending load. But that's due to the sliding, locking nature of the binding.
Again this is meant to be a XC application of an AT binding. I think if you want an AT binding toe piece there are plenty of robust and very light designs out there. TTS has been around for what, a decade? More?
I really have no interest in this. NNN-BC does everything it needs to do for off-track XC skiing. Many options for Tele and AT for serious DH skiing.
|
|
|
Post by cunningstunts on Apr 27, 2021 3:18:01 GMT
Johnny is a fanatic. It's just his nature, he's like that with everything. He just happens to be fanatical about Rotte. Ehh... I'm kind of over them TBH. There's better shit made here in America* with less corporate intervention.
*that's not MAGA bullshit, I just think too much international commerce is wasteful and not beneficial for most individuals
|
|