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Post by Telebabble on Jan 1, 2022 21:45:31 GMT
Some dope at Ttalk fired up another (annual) idiots' thread about the DO-EVERYTHING SKI! That's all he needed to do to prove how stupid he is OR what a lame troll he is. Transparently moronic, and to top it all off, he claims he will mount his wonder skis NNN. DUDE, this is fantasy bullshit goes back to the early 70's and was even then denounced as hopeless wishful thinking in the book XCD.
Hey stupid, ya wanna see your future? Good, than watch Grampa Groomer flop around on some E109's. ARC ON!
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 1, 2022 21:58:23 GMT
NNN/BC.. Some can ski the ultralight setups well for XCD, but I never see it on anything but really good conditions overall, and generally that "some" is known to shamelessly make use of a wide range of gear. Telehiro is a good example. Yeah, the amazing one-ski quiver is bullshit that is religion for some but a waste of time for all.
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Post by cunningstunts on Jan 2, 2022 1:19:27 GMT
I think you could easily pick a single ski, but if you want it to do everything, you probably wouldn't want to mount it NNN-BC.
The ski would need be:
Single camber, smooth base, extremely light, light camber and rocker, mids around 70-80mm, not too much sidecut. It won't be the best powder ski or XC ski, but it could get it all done.
For a binding a 75mm, no contest. If you want the most flexibility for a single ski, that's it. Then all you need are a couple pairs of boots - you could probably get away Excursion or T4, but they are pretty blocky to XC in. A T2 in plastic and soft leather for XC is better.
I'm pretty sure Asnes makes that ski, or a range that would fit that category. I don't think the Ingstad is that ski though - it's not quite wide enough and a touch too cambered. Maybe those Falketinds? They kind of had too much sidecut IMO, but I know they keep fine tuning these types of skis.
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Post by cunningstunts on Jan 2, 2022 2:45:03 GMT
Actually my Heliums are pretty close to this ski.
If they were a tad wider, had a bit of rocker and a more modern layup they’d be there.
You might say that’s an Objective with a smooth base, but not quite - somewhere there but a little more XC - maybe 10cm more length and 5mm less width overall?
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 2, 2022 14:41:32 GMT
I think you could easily pick a single ski, but if you want it to do everything, you probably wouldn't want to mount it NNN-BC. The ski would need be: Single camber, smooth base, extremely light, light camber and rocker, mids around 70-80mm, not too much sidecut. It won't be the best powder ski or XC ski, but it could get it all done. For a binding a 75mm, no contest. If you want the most flexibility for a single ski, that's it. Then all you need are a couple pairs of boots - you could probably get away Excursion or T4, but they are pretty blocky to XC in. A T2 in plastic and soft leather for XC is better. I'm pretty sure Asnes makes that ski, or a range that would fit that category. I don't think the Ingstad is that ski though - it's not quite wide enough and a touch too cambered. Maybe those Falketinds? They kind of had too much sidecut IMO, but I know they keep fine tuning these types of skis. Lots of skis in the 80-85 class do well both on and off piste -they don't float like a 100+ and are not the top skis for carving, but still, hard to beat FOR single skis. I don't know how you actually weight the importance of XC other than to say if it's really a focus, then add more camber and not too much shape which is to say give up flotation and turn ease and stability. Another advantage of 75mm, by the way, is you could carry leather or pleather boots for the longer "XC" parts of your outing and switch to a stiffer boot for the longer downs -- a bit of an inconvenience but might make good sense in come situations. Mount something like the 0bjective with HW3pin or 3PC and you have some real versatility if you don't mind packing extra boots. I have an old pair of K2 Backups mounted HW3pin that make sense in this context except true XC would be a slog. I think you have to add ( put up with) fishscales and ( at least) kicker skis to even come close to the one-ski ideal. |
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Post by cunningstunts on Jan 2, 2022 15:35:51 GMT
Honestly those smooth base, single camber skis slide really well. They don't have the "snap" of a camber ski, but it doesn't mean they don't glide.
Really the XC, for me, comes from having a bit of length, and not too much width. At some point the ski doesn't know whether it wants to go straight or sideways, but that attribute also makes it easy to rotate for the down - so somewhat conflicting.
For my height/weight, a 185 is a pretty good compromise between K+G and dh performance. My Objectives are more like 175 (178) and my Ingstads are 200, but in between those two are my Heliums, which are a pretty good compromise. A little rocker, but not too much, can boost the DH performance a bit. On a ski like those, I feel like you don't need a lot of sidecut - I think it's better for tracking for them to be straight and to have the extra width for deeper snow. If the flex is right they are easy to skid around on piste. A real carving ski does nothing well but carve, and excess sidecut on a light, not-very-stiff torsionally ski, probably isn't giving you much of anything useful.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 2, 2022 17:27:07 GMT
Lots of shape can give the ski really quick pivots, but the cost can be a twitchy ski which can be hard to control and not predictable. The SIDECUT!!! Thing is pretty played out by now.
I've always thought the XC aspect of XCD was way overstated. Ya want maximum XC, you'll find it on the groomers at the Nordic centers. And most really good true XC gear is actually pretty miserably useless off piste.
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Post by cunningstunts on Jan 2, 2022 17:46:15 GMT
I'm not going to disagree a quiver gives you WAY better performance all-around. I mean if one ski size fit all we wouldn't have a million different specialized niches.
But...
The premise was a ski that is best all-rounder, and I think that they pretty much nailed it, minus the materials with the 90s shapes and camber. XC skis had already been developed for going real fast in a track before that, but those skis never really did all that great off a groomed trail. And, of course, post-90s is when we see the real development of what's consider game-changing skis. First it was shape, then it was width + rocker, now it's RCR and swing weight reduction, blah, blah.. but those 90s shapes skied DH great - they weren't like trying to fight E99s down a bunny hill, you could actually ski the whole mountain on them. Lighter layups would limit how hard you can push, but still perfectly skiable.
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Post by Telebabble on Jan 3, 2022 0:01:44 GMT
FIGHTING The 99's down a bunnyhill? GAWD!They rip anything...but mostly my elongated sciatic! Sit back and rip..the sciatic! ... beer! TELEKING!
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Post by albertatele on Jan 3, 2022 0:34:02 GMT
GAWD! Walking around on skis is the thinger! Walk and poke! E99 skis anything.. if you call walking and poking skiing ..Telemark..<snicker> sausage! Hardwood tree-- just Eastern, GAWD!
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Jan 3, 2022 13:53:56 GMT
Should have pointed out that leathers and such are absolutely not a fit for the Hardwire3pin or any hardwire type. At a minimum, you want to use a T4 or some other low-cut softer plastic boot ( that would be an Excursion) with Hardwires. There is no reason a T2 and a leather or soft boot cannot both be used with a 3PC though. And if you really want to dick around, you can modify the pin toe box and cables and hardwire ends to allow using either a T2 or leathers.
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Post by mark on Jan 4, 2022 17:33:37 GMT
The simpler solution , IMHO, is to just spin out the cartridges to a very soft setting so as to not worry about pressuring the leathers too much. Then you can overland in lighter boots than T4's (if it's really that big of a deal) and still use the T2's or 4's for the down.
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Post by Grampa Groomer on Jan 5, 2022 13:47:22 GMT
Or..you can grind and file and fuck around and possibly ruin your bindings all while increasing the chances of your bodily injury.
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