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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 1, 2019 15:35:47 GMT
Kinda,depends.. On a no-cables system it's a far bigger deal than on a cabled binding. Virtually no one worries that much about it on a decent cabled binding with plastic boots ( or even heavy leathers ) because may not really happen, and it just generally does not matter due to the mechanics of the binding system. Stay compact on "heavier" gear and things will just tend to take care of themselves, no use or need to obsess on exactly how "up" the heel gets. On plain pins -- or NNN and the like-- staying on the BOF can only actually happen if the heel is held/forced way down further than typically ( or very often at least ) is the case. Good article on BOF: Ball of FootTruth is if you want to really tele-ski super light gear AND keep good BOF pressure, then you should learn to ski it how Telehiro teaches: keep the heel of the trailing ski just a couple of inches off the ski, otherwise there's just no way you will really be "on" the ball of your rear foot that well.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 1, 2019 15:42:05 GMT
Interesting what you see at the start when he flexes the boots.. And how often is he NOT fully on the BOF as he skies? Pretty often, but he skis nicely anyways, because he stays compact.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 1, 2019 15:55:23 GMT
Contrast, a student of Telehiro. Most of the time you can barely tell her rear heel comes off the ski. Yes, this is about as much literal BOF pressure as you could get on this gear. She's ideally compact for the gear.
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Post by mark on Nov 2, 2019 15:26:16 GMT
Hmmmm, but someone says: greatgt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:12 am "Good advise.......thinger to remember about plastic boots....You can't ride the back ski on the balls of your feet...For me that is the deal breaker....look at any pictures you want....The back boot is always riding on the front tip of your boot.....you can be much more free....and balanced with softer flexing leather....Without a doubt plastic will give you much more power....but.....if your a finesse skier that doesn't cut it"...Teleman And someone else named LowangleAl says: "This is opinion, not fact. " Well, truth is it's a big debate over nothing, except thinking that there's something "more REAL Tele" about a softer flexing boot. As ron shows above, skiers on gear of any kind seldom really stay on the bof and they really don't have to in cabled bindings- and actually don't have to in pins or system bindings-; it's staying compact that matters most. The "thinger" to remember is staying COMPACT!
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 3, 2019 17:40:10 GMT
The Telehiro skiers who manage to really keep the heel down to within a couple inches of the binding are on the balls of their feet more reliably than most other Tele skiers - IMO. But again, no reason you can't Tele-ski like that on pins or about any other Tele bindings and with plastic boots, though leathers generally flex with less resistance. While there may be advantages in skiing on the ball of the foot with some very light gear, I see no use in worrying about that at all on heavier gear. And yes, being compact IS the BFD for all Telemark.
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Post by albertatele on Nov 4, 2019 18:18:57 GMT
I think if you are going to Tele on NNN (or any XC type) bindings, you really need to keep the heel lower as a habit more so than even on pins. So I can see why there's such a focus with the Japanese who follow Telehiro's method for XCD on System gear. Maybe I'll give it a whirl some time just for the hell of it, though my 3pC and light plastics work so well for my type of XCD that investing a pile of cash just to learn to do what I already can is not all that attractive.
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Post by mark on Nov 4, 2019 22:20:55 GMT
Conflation: feeling pressure around the ball of the foot and being literally ON the ball of the foot. It's impossible to lift the heel without a boot on and to literally stay on the ball of the foot at 100%; it becomes harder with any shoe or boot on no matter how soft-flexing. It does not happen because it cannot happen, not literally.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 5, 2019 16:12:26 GMT
The lower ya go, the more on the toe.. And at some point, it makes no difference what gear you are on, you will not literally be on the ball of the foot. And again, what will keep the trailing ski well-weighted will be staying compact.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 5, 2019 16:18:39 GMT
When compact (on any gear), it feels like you are literally on the BOF because you feel BOF pressure, not because you literally are on the ball, and a softer-flexing boot will also make it easier for you to feel that pressure.
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Post by Telebabble on Nov 6, 2019 15:43:44 GMT
Well now, over at Ttalk "someone" (can you guess who?) is misquoting what Cesare had to say about the whole ball of foot consideration, as if real Telemark skiers are going to convert (revert in some cases) to floppy leather boots just so they can be "on" the balls of their feet a tad more. This linked article below (not terribly scientific but amusingly practical) states that in a plastic boot one might be on the the ball with the sole angle at around 25 degrees whereas with the author's leather walking shoe ( certainly less soft-flexing than any decent leather ski boot other than a virtual dishrag), the angle of interest is more like 45 degrees, give or take. Which all adds up to one giant BFD if skiing at all lower than virtually skiing tall interests you with your "real" Tele leather floppies. Watch a video of or look at a series of stills of anyone on leathers (or soft synthetics) in cableless bindings and what you will see is very often, more often than not, the skier's heel of the trailing ski will be far beyond any 45 degree angle. Bottomline? Plastic boot in virtually any cabled binding continues to transfer ball-of-foot force at virtually any angle of the sole whereas plain pins or NNN-types depend on weighted forefeet beyond apprx. 45 degrees. BallofFootPower
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Post by albertatele on Nov 6, 2019 16:18:58 GMT
Interestingly this means that to ski low with SOME reliable power one needs to be in, at the very least, some sort of cabled binding even if it's just a lowly Voile 3PC (with a softer plastic or a stiffer leather). The irony is that lowballing is "oldschool", but to be most effective at it, new gear is required. Also lowballing tends to spread a skier out just when the need is to stay even more compact-- especially if on lighter gear. The cover here shows good pressure on the ball, but as soon as he starts skiing, he often raises the the boot beyond that 45-degree mark. It's much easier to hold the heel down statically than when sliding.
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Post by mark on Nov 7, 2019 15:29:47 GMT
An absolute master of the low heel. He skis tall and in the same way whether using heavy or light gear. He can pivot faster than most anyone. Hardwires, NNN or pins, plastic or floppy boots, he skis about the same, but he matches his gear to the conditions and the terrain.
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Post by LoveRonnyRavenSC! on Nov 7, 2019 16:12:57 GMT
He does have some amusing vids. Still using 75mm and leathers at times.
Tele range-of-motion advantage..( Never seen him on NTN or Tech )
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Post by mark on Nov 21, 2019 17:15:32 GMT
This can be put very simply: STAY COMPACT. Whoever made up the "rule" that it if there's not a full boot length between boots, then it ain't Tele, was just full of shit. As an exercise, try and Tele from the shortest distance between boots that you possibly can.
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Post by Telebabble on Feb 1, 2023 23:19:47 GMT
Good practice to do lead changes and stay just as close together with the legs as possible. Who cares what ya call it?
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